[iPhone 3G] Will it work with T-Mobile USA's 3G network ?

[wildonrio]

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong here.

* The new iPhone has a 3G radio that will function on three frequencies: 850 MHz, 1900 MHz, and 2100 MHz (see here (http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html)).
* AT&T only uses the 850 and 1900 frequencies. T-Mobile on the other hand uses the 2100 MHz frequency for downloads and the 1700 MHz frequency for uploads (see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quad_band#3G)).
* So, logically speaking, the iPhone 3G can use T-Mobile USA's downlink frequency but not it's uplink. This basically means that you could download using T-Mobile's 3G, but for uploads you would have to use EDGE, which is hardly a big deal.

(This is once 3G becomes available nationwide with T-Mobile, while as of now it is only working in NYC.)

Please refute this logic only if you know what you're talking about.

[bendermarte]

Logic tells me that you are correct but i'm not too sure how the iphone will go about CONSTANTLY switching between edge and 3G, i know it's possible but we're talking about switching every few seconds and if it works the way a computer does packets will be sent and received at the same time. I'm not too sure about things since i'm not an expert but the constant exchange of "requests and responses" will stress the iphone in my understanding.

[MacDragon]

I don't believe the radios in phones can operate on two different technologies at same time, or indeed, the network to support such, so I very very much doubt something like that would be possible.

[wildonrio]

But do you really upload and download at the same time enough for it to be a problem? I mean, when you send an email that is simply an upload all by itself. What else are you gonna use uploading for anyway?

[aranmor]

To me that sound like wishful thinking, even though it sounds faceable, it's not logical nor practical, from any point of view, but who knows... if the hardware can do it, the software can be created.

[apache4u]

For the ability to download you also need the ability to upload.
I don't know if it is technically possible to use the umts band for downloading ( the actual data) and edge for uploading (requesting and acknowledging) data. I have no knowledge of these protocols. But in tcp/ip , which will be the protocol used over umts/edge, you need both upload and download in order to establish connections.

[xcesivemastub8ah]

its not just about the phone. You can't do anything about the network towers. AWS network towers can only "hear" the 1.7ghz frequency. If you can't connect to the tower, how is the tower supposed to connect to you? If you use edge to connect to the network the network Is going to use edge to connect to you.

[xcesivemastub8ah]

But do you really upload and download at the same time enough for it to be a problem? I mean, when you send an email that is simply an upload all by itself. What else are you gonna use uploading for anyway?
BTW you seem to be a little confused. Everytime you open a browser and connect to a network, youre uploading. Everytime you type an address and hit send, your uploading. When you open your weather app or retrieve your e-mail, your uploading requested information to the network. You can't download without uploading first. You have to upload a request before a network can download you the information. So to answer your question: you use upload as many times as you use download.

[aranmor]

as far as I see it, the only way that the iphone 3g would work on T-mobile's one of a kind network is if the radio is actually capable of supporting the 1700Mhz frequency and they just didn't disclosed it since the phone is not intended to be used on that band anywhere they will commercialize it, anyone has read the chip's specs?

[wildonrio]

BTW you seem to be a little confused. Everytime you open a browser and connect to a network, youre uploading. Everytime you type an address and hit send, your uploading. When you open your weather app or retrieve your e-mail, your uploading requested information to the network. You can't download without uploading first. You have to upload a request before a network can download you the information. So to answer your question: you use upload as many times as you use download.
But even if you use upload just as much, it doesn't need to be nearly as fast as download. That's my point. With 3G downloads and EDGE uploads, I think you'll get along just fine.

[xcesivemastub8ah]

But even if you use upload just as much, it doesn't need to be nearly as fast as download. That's my point. With 3G downloads and EDGE uploads, I think you'll get along just fine.

Your still not getting it. In order for a 3g tower to communicate with a phone, the phone must communicate with the tower first. Tmo USA's AWS towers only recieve communication via 1.7ghz frequency. To the towers the iPhone won't even exist. towers don't send 3g data to phones that don't exist.

[wildonrio]

Your still not getting it. In order for a 3g tower to communicate with a phone, the phone must communicate with the tower first. Tmo USA's AWS towers only recieve communication via 1.7ghz frequency. To the towers the iPhone won't even exist. towers don't send 3g data to phones that don't exist.

You never explained that the upload must be 3G for the download to also be 3G, so yeah, I didn't get it till now. Where did you learn that you can't upload EDGE and then download 3G?

[wsxijn03]

It doesn't work that way because communication happens both directions (downlink/uplink) within the same radio technology (3G=WCDMA, EDGE = TDMA/FDMA). Before you even get a radio data channel, there are a bunch of handshaking signals going between the cell tower and the phone. In the case of T-mobile US's 3G, the signalling has to occur from cell tower to cell phone on 2100MHz and from cell phone to cell tower on 1700MHz. Without the support for 1700MHz, there is no way a cell tower can set you up with a download data channel.

Even if iPhone supports 1700MHz, no provider is going to allow you to do that on purpose simply because it will murder their network performance for having too much IRAT (Inter Radio Access Technology) handoffs. They actually want to avoid that at all cost.

Hope this makes sense to you.

[JN2]

as far as I see it, the only way that the iphone 3g would work on [T-Mobile's] one of a kind network is if the radio is actually capable of supporting the 1700Mhz frequency and they just didn't disclosed it since the phone is not intended to be used on that band anywhere they will commercialize it, anyone has read the chip's specs?This would be our only hope for T-Mobile USA. Otherwise, T-Mobile users will have to stick with EDGE on iPhone.

[DerekLMartin]

I could be completely wrong here but isn't the 2100mhz frequency used in European countries. The way I understand it is the iphone has one chip that will allow it to go on 3 g anywhere it is sold. Europe uses 2100 but it is NOT the same 2100 as what T-Mobile uses. I think all the T-Mobile users in the US are going to be stuck with edge for this new unit.

[aranmor]

I could be completely wrong here but isn't the 2100mhz frequency used in European countries. The way I understand it is the iphone has one chip that will allow it to go on 3 g anywhere it is sold. Europe uses 2100 but it is NOT the same 2100 as what T-Mobile uses. I think all the T-Mobile users in the US are going to be stuck with edge for this new unit.

The 2100Mhz band is not the problem, the problem is the 1700Mhz network which is used for the uplink in the connection.

[JN2]

Did anybody check exactly what components Apple is using to see if such components may have the 1700 Mhz and Apple is just not saying?

[LiTos]

why did you post this in 2 different threads?

[JN2]

why did you post this in 2 different threads?Why are there two threads on this topic? Since there are two threads, I figured I might as well put my comment in both, as they will get separated in the list and may be read by different persons.

[LiTos]

http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10071/picard-no-facepalm.jpg
sorry i just had to do that.
whover reads one thread usually reads the other...

[korexz]

But even if you use upload just as much, it doesn't need to be nearly as fast as download. That's my point. With 3G downloads and EDGE uploads, I think you'll get along just fine.

Unless T-Mobile manages your connection (IP based) on the switch you are out of luck.

Besides that I think AT&T is going to make life hell for those of us that want the 3G iPhone yet want to stay with the best GSM provider in the US. I had AT&T and I will never go back. They are almost criminal in the way they deal with consumers.

The only thing I will leave TMOB for is WiMAX.

Best thing for TMOB users to do is to buy up the EDGE iPhones when they hit eBay.

[OSXD]

iPhone 3G will work with T-Mobile (USA). iPhone is using the following chipset:

http://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/channel.html?channel=ff80808112ab681d0112ab6ab9420 5ef
X-GOLD™ 608 - PMB 8878
Multimode - HSDPA, WCDMA, E-GPRS Baseband IC with embedded multimedia functions; launch in the market Q3 2007
HSDPA 7.2Mbps, WCDMA 384kbps class UL/DL & EDGE multislot class 12, including SAIC/DARP support
HW security, video telephony, streaming, record & replay, H.264, MPEG4, MP3, eAAC+, etc.
DDR & NAND memory support

Looks like it will also work with expensive Verizon(WCDMA).

http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/05/05/austria.talks.3g.iphone/
Leaks inside Apple's iPhone 2.0 beta code and from outside reports point to the Apple device including an Infineon chipset that should support UMTS as well as alternative standards, including the faster HSDPA format and WCDMA.

Infineon’s 3.5 G physical layer architecture is future-proof and designed for an easy
upgrade to higher HSDPA data rates, HSUPA and also Rx-diversity.

Key Modem Features
3GPP Release 5 compliant dual mode
protocol stack (EDGE/HSDPA)
HSDPA - category 8 (7.2Mbit/s)
Implementation of fractional chip rate
equalizer
Configurable to lower categories/data rates
Option to switch off HSDPA to save power
WCDMA 384kbit/s class for uplink and
downlink
EDGE multislot class 12
GPRS/GSM
FR, HR, EFR, AMR codecs
SAIC/DARP integrated
DTM class 11
64 voices polyphonic ringing
Echo cancellation/noise reduction
GTT/TTY

http://www.infineon.com/dgdl/X-GOLD608_XMM6080.pdf?location=Products.Mobile_Phone _Baseband_ICs.WCDMA___HSDPA.X-GOLD__608_-_PMB_8878.PRODUCT_TYPE_DOCUMENTS.X-GOLD608_XMM6080.pdf&folderId=db3a304312fcb1bc0113000c158f0004&fileId=db3a30431936bc4b011957c66fee3850

[xcesivemastub8ah]

iPhone 3G will work with T-Mobile (USA). iPhone is using the following chipset:

http://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/channel.html?channel=ff80808112ab681d0112ab6ab9420 5ef
X-GOLD™ 608 - PMB 8878
Multimode - HSDPA, WCDMA, E-GPRS Baseband IC with embedded multimedia functions; launch in the market Q3 2007
HSDPA 7.2Mbps, WCDMA 384kbps class UL/DL & EDGE multislot class 12, including SAIC/DARP support
HW security, video telephony, streaming, record & replay, H.264, MPEG4, MP3, eAAC+, etc.
DDR & NAND memory support

Looks like it will also work with expensive Verizon(WCDMA).

http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/05/05/austria.talks.3g.iphone/
Leaks inside Apple's iPhone 2.0 beta code and from outside reports point to the Apple device including an Infineon chipset that should support UMTS as well as alternative standards, including the faster HSDPA format and WCDMA.

Infineon’s 3.5 G physical layer architecture is future-proof and designed for an easy
upgrade to higher HSDPA data rates, HSUPA and also Rx-diversity.

Key Modem Features
3GPP Release 5 compliant dual mode
protocol stack (EDGE/HSDPA)
HSDPA - category 8 (7.2Mbit/s)
Implementation of fractional chip rate
equalizer
Configurable to lower categories/data rates
Option to switch off HSDPA to save power
WCDMA 384kbit/s class for uplink and
downlink
EDGE multislot class 12
GPRS/GSM
FR, HR, EFR, AMR codecs
SAIC/DARP integrated
DTM class 11
64 voices polyphonic ringing
Echo cancellation/noise reduction
GTT/TTY

http://www.infineon.com/dgdl/X-GOLD608_XMM6080.pdf?location=Products.Mobile_Phone _Baseband_ICs.WCDMA___HSDPA.X-GOLD__608_-_PMB_8878.PRODUCT_TYPE_DOCUMENTS.X-GOLD608_XMM6080.pdf&folderId=db3a304312fcb1bc0113000c158f0004&fileId=db3a30431936bc4b011957c66fee3850

uhhh.......... no.

[xcesivemastub8ah]

Unless T-Mobile manages your connection (IP based) on the switch you are out of luck.

Besides that I think AT&T is going to make life hell for those of us that want the 3G iPhone yet want to stay with the best GSM provider in the US. I had AT&T and I will never go back. They are almost criminal in the way they deal with consumers.
.

if by "best" you mean the GSM provider that has outdated technology and drops calls almost as if they were doing it on purpouse, then yeah. i agree with you. otherwise, having the friendliest CS doesnt make you the best. ive had t-mo (along with sprint and verizon) and if ATT fails (even though their prices have gone up, ive had them for years so my plan is STILL cheaper and better than t-mo's) and jacks up the prices on me too, i'd go without a cell phone loooong before i go back to any of the others....

[mongoose8p]

if by "best" you mean the GSM provider that has outdated technology and drops calls almost as if they were doing it on purpouse, then yeah. i agree with you. otherwise, having the friendliest CS doesnt make you the best. ive had t-mo (along with sprint and verizon) and if ATT fails (even though their prices have gone up, ive had them for years so my plan is STILL cheaper and better than t-mo's) and jacks up the prices on me too, i'd go without a cell phone loooong before i go back to any of the others....

I highly disagree... I find ATT to be one of the most untrustworthy companies in the united states... Whether its cellphones, DSL, long distance home phone, they are by far one of the most sleazy companies ever! I'd go without a cellphone before I ever switch to ATT. Honestly I love apple but ATT and Apple combined is quite possibly the worst combination ever. I honestly lost respect for Apple when they made this bond with ATT. Very large mistake and it seems they are starting to feel it.

[hazcona]

i called Tmo in NYC and asked about the 3G. they said they have 3G in NYC but not everywhere in the USA. it was test launched here first and its working good on some of their phones, i forgot which ones though. But they guy said its going to work with the new iphone. i hope this helps anyone in NYC who wants the new phone. :)

[jumphopspin]

i called Tmo in NYC and asked about the 3G. they said they have 3G in NYC but not everywhere in the USA. it was test launched here first and its working good on some of their phones, i forgot which ones though. But they guy said its going to work with the new iphone. i hope this helps anyone in NYC who wants the new phone. :)

this thread needs to be locked man. i love how all these new guys come in here and say without a doubt it'll work with t-mobile 3g service and not provide any evidence for it. (and calling them up and having them "confirm" it is not evidence.. most of the time their customer service reps don't know shit anyway or telling you false shit just to have you as a customer). don't get me wrong i'd love it if it were true, but it's not. there have been plenty of times mentioned that the new iphone will not have the chipset/radio to run on t-mobile's 1700Mhz spectrum. you can check this in the specifications of the infineon chipset (google) or check the specifications of the iphone itself on the apple website. clearly states that it has a tri-band UMTS/HSDPA 850/1900/2100Mhz.

[jumphopspin]

iPhone 3G will work with T-Mobile (USA). iPhone is using the following chipset:

http://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/channel.html?channel=ff80808112ab681d0112ab6ab9420 5ef
X-GOLD™ 608 - PMB 8878
Multimode - HSDPA, WCDMA, E-GPRS Baseband IC with embedded multimedia functions; launch in the market Q3 2007
HSDPA 7.2Mbps, WCDMA 384kbps class UL/DL & EDGE multislot class 12, including SAIC/DARP support
HW security, video telephony, streaming, record & replay, H.264, MPEG4, MP3, eAAC+, etc.
DDR & NAND memory support

Looks like it will also work with expensive Verizon(WCDMA).

http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/05/05/austria.talks.3g.iphone/
Leaks inside Apple's iPhone 2.0 beta code and from outside reports point to the Apple device including an Infineon chipset that should support UMTS as well as alternative standards, including the faster HSDPA format and WCDMA.

Infineon’s 3.5 G physical layer architecture is future-proof and designed for an easy
upgrade to higher HSDPA data rates, HSUPA and also Rx-diversity.

Key Modem Features
3GPP Release 5 compliant dual mode
protocol stack (EDGE/HSDPA)
HSDPA - category 8 (7.2Mbit/s)
Implementation of fractional chip rate
equalizer
Configurable to lower categories/data rates
Option to switch off HSDPA to save power
WCDMA 384kbit/s class for uplink and
downlink
EDGE multislot class 12
GPRS/GSM
FR, HR, EFR, AMR codecs
SAIC/DARP integrated
DTM class 11
64 voices polyphonic ringing
Echo cancellation/noise reduction
GTT/TTY

http://www.infineon.com/dgdl/X-GOLD608_XMM6080.pdf?location=Products.Mobile_Phone _Baseband_ICs.WCDMA___HSDPA.X-GOLD__608_-_PMB_8878.PRODUCT_TYPE_DOCUMENTS.X-GOLD608_XMM6080.pdf&folderId=db3a304312fcb1bc0113000c158f0004&fileId=db3a30431936bc4b011957c66fee3850

LOLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!11!!!!!!!!!!!eleven

[OSXD]

i love how all these new guys come in here...

What's your Hackint0sh join date? Or are u just looking at how many posts one makes? Just cuz some spend more time talking (posting), instead of reading, doesn't mean u know more.


I digress, look at the chipset. The 3G iPhone will in fact have the ability built-in to work with T-Mobile (USA). ...And possibly nonGSM Verizon I believe...

[xcesivemastub8ah]

What's your Hackint0sh join date? Or are u just looking at how many posts one makes? Just cuz some spend more time talking (posting), instead of reading, doesn't mean u know more.


I digress, look at the chipset. The 3G iPhone will in fact have the ability built-in to work with T-Mobile (USA). ...And possibly nonGSM Verizon I believe...

dude you believe wrong. No where on the does it say the chip supports the AWS band that t-mo will use for their 3g. And I seriously hope you don't think "wcdma" is the same as "CDMA".....
and on a side note: the acne covered kid working down at your local t-mo outlet store or answering the CS phones on his summer job at a t-mo call center, is NOT someone whose word you wanna take to the bank.....

[OSXD]

dude you believe wrong. No where on the does it say the chip supports the AWS band that t-mo will use for their 3g. And I seriously hope you don't think "wcdma" is the same as "CDMA".....
and on a side note: the acne covered kid working down at your local t-mo outlet store or answering the CS phones on his summer job at a t-mo call center, is NOT someone whose word you wanna take to the bank.....

It's been rumored for a while that Verizon would switch to WCDMA (an upgrade of the GSM technology wireless operators in Europe and Asia use).

as a side note: don't assume I or anyone else has talked to or plans on talking to our local tmobile store rep about 3G iPhone. Assumptions are like a$$holes. Everyone has one!

[hazcona]

this thread needs to be locked man. i love how all these new guys come in here and say without a doubt it'll work with t-mobile 3g service and not provide any evidence for it. (and calling them up and having them "confirm" it is not evidence.. most of the time their customer service reps don't know shit anyway or telling you false shit just to have you as a customer). don't get me wrong i'd love it if it were true, but it's not. there have been plenty of times mentioned that the new iphone will not have the chipset/radio to run on t-mobile's 1700Mhz spectrum. you can check this in the specifications of the infineon chipset (google) or check the specifications of the iphone itself on the apple website. clearly states that it has a tri-band UMTS/HSDPA 850/1900/2100Mhz.

Woooo Excuse me sir... I'm sorry i didn't mean to offend you... seriously sorry... is there a fee that i need to pay for that post?

all i did was call TMO and ask. they guy answered my question and i posted it. thats all.

[xcesivemastub8ah]

It's been rumored for a while that Verizon would switch to WCDMA (an upgrade of the GSM technology wireless operators in Europe and Asia use).

it's not a rumor. verizons mommy Vodafone(owns about 50% of verizon) already said that in the next for years they plan to go to GSM. with LTE aka 4G. not 3G.
as a side note: don't assume I or anyone else has talked to or plans on talking to our local tmobile store rep about 3G iPhone. Assumptions are like a$$holes. Everyone has one!

i called Tmo in NYC and asked about the 3G. they said they have 3G in NYC but not everywhere in the USA. it was test launched here first and its working good on some of their phones, i forgot which ones though. But they guy said its going to work with the new iphone. i hope this helps anyone in NYC who wants the new phone.
how does that saying goes?:" when you assume you make an "ASS out of U and ME"..... dont assume everything is about you........

[thefewtheproud]

it's not a rumor. verizons mommy Vodafone(owns about 50% of verizon) already said that in the next for years they plan to go to GSM. with LTE aka 4G. not 3G.



how does that saying goes?:" when you assume you make an "ASS out of U and ME"..... dont assume everything is about you........

sorry for kinda off topic but can I please copy your sig? It is hilarious!:p

[xcesivemastub8ah]

sorry for kinda off topic but can I please copy your sig? It is hilarious!:p

my sig?:confused: i dunno dude.... that comment was made by one of the mods here.....

[hazcona]

i was only stating what the guy told me thats all.... i wasn't saying it was legit on the books... so with that said... if tmo doesn't support it then w/e it doesn't faze me.

[JN2]

I would like to hear about someone getting one of the 3g phones unlocked and trying it on the currently running TMobile 3G network in New York to see if there is an unstated [by Apple] capability in the phone that might exist if the 3G chip supplier has in mind to sell its chips for other phones that work on TMobile USA.