[speculation] 1.1.4 before SDK?

[lolec]

Ok so, i understand that Dev team hide 1.1.3 jailbreak until SDK is out, so we can enjoy a jailbreaked, 3rd party app-friendly iphone :).

pretty utopic imho.

1) Apple know better than enyone his weakness

2) You are trusting people a lot! someone will get the jailbreak and release it, caring a dime about end users.

3) a lot of people is looking for this, 1 month is time enough for someone else to jailbreak and release.

4) Its sad, but, hackers will go as fourther as Apple whants. Until now Apple lost some AT&T clients but won a lot of publicity, rising the hipe in all the world not just in US, also won a lot of users in non iphone countries, users that will never use Apple aproved service, just because theres no iphone in that country.
But now the buisiness change, the money will be in apps. App creators will be very angry if we can use hacked, free apps while they sell it, and Apple dont whant to piss off developers

5) Apple will start selling iphones in alot of other countries, so they will not need you hackers anymore.

6) Devs dont whant to release so Apple dont know what to patch. but if Apple find out that the jailbreak is done. Do you think they will allow us to use that, already-jailbraked firmware with the new SDK?


After all that, i think apple will realease a new firmware, bootloder or anything they need to protect his money. the very day they release SDK .
So thats my bet, 1.1.4 in late feb. Screwing us maybe forever :)

If anyone think im wrong, post here, using arguments.

ps. i'm not asking DEV team to release jailbreak, i think is a valid, yet very luck-dependent desicion. and it worth the risk. For us who have prior 1.1.3 OTB its kinda useless to update, we have almost any new feature already, multi sms, locateme, customize, webclips... For those with 1.1.3 OTB well, waiting 20 days will not kill you.

[usr3982]

Personally, I think someone else will jailbreak and release the method before the end of Feb. If it can be done once, it can be done again. There are way too many smart people out there. Someone else will do it and care more about getting credit for doing/releasing it than about keeping Appl at bay.

That being said, it doesn't matter if Appl releases a 1.1.4 or 1.2.0 before or with the SDK. The 1.1.3 f/w will still be around. People will still be able to upgrade to that and jailbreak.

All it would mean is that someone would have to then try to jailbreak the next version to be able to use native AND jailbroken apps. If that's what you meant by getting screwed forever, them maybe.

I doubt it though. Appl can fix all they want. If it can be made, then it can be unmade.

Just my $0.02

[lolec]

by screwed forever i meant that 1.1.4 or will be very likely not jailbreakable.

[starchest]

Then everyone should go buy their phones now :D

[Pajaro]

Here is the new jailbreak:

http://www.iphoneatlas.com/2008/01/20/software-based-iphone-113-jailbreak-claimed/

[usr3982]

Difficult, maybe.

Impossible? Probably not impossible. Like I said, there's just too many smart people out there who don't work for Appl. :)

[epij]

there is no such thing as "forever" in terms of device/application security.

once the holes are tight, the whole thing will be decrypted and reverse engineered.

just look at sony and the psp. exact same story over there, and now tell me why apple should be so much more advanced than sony in terms of keeping the homebrewers/hackers away from their devices ? :>

[don527]

i don't know how the sony and psp are but people keep referencing them... the latest machines... how are they being hacked? sw? hw?

thanks

[slimnickyy]

Most likely in light on this Apple will force all phones on bootloader 3.9 to go to 4.6 (or newer) with the new SDK Firmware. This would mean we all may be screwed regardless and stuck with 1.1.3.

I'd wonder if they'd release the JB then?

[raptorjr]

But isn't jailbreak only half the way? Even if it is jailbreaked you cant use it to make calls? Not even with *sim solution? So upgrading to 1.1.3 is pretty useless even with jailbreak, unless you have a valid AT&T or similar.

[Fab1Man]

Everyone is stating: "Apple must release a new firmware in order to support SDK". Guess what? 1.1.3 has this native support already. I don't think they will release a new firmware, and even if, 1.1.3 will definitely run SDK, as Apple will not block this if you haven't got the latest firmware.

[raptorjr]

Most likely in light on this Apple will force all phones on bootloader 3.9 to go to 4.6 (or newer) with the new SDK Firmware. This would mean we all may be screwed regardless and stuck with 1.1.3.

I'd wonder if they'd release the JB then?

Is it realistic to believe that Apple will force 2-300 000(or how many there is) users to go to a store and change their phone to one with 4.6 BL? Since the BL cant be updated by FW update. Dont think so.

[Gi0]

by screwed forever i meant that 1.1.4 or will be very likely not jailbreakable.
As u said speculation.U dont know what kind of bug(or not)did dev team exploit to jailbreak it.And by kind,i mean a really-hard-to-find-exploit or maybe an-easy-something-apple-forgot..which may make 1.1.4 jail-breakable etc.
Anyway,lets not start a month(or more) sooner,"is 1.1.4 out?".
I get your point,i think u get mine.

[huecobros]

your spelling made my eyes sore, so i stoped reading

[don527]

that's what i thought too. someone correct if wrong but with 1.1.3 on the itouch,
isn't the $20 app upgrade a d/l thru itunes? if so isn't that the delivery method that will be used once 3rd party apps are made available through itunes? so it thought we are all set with 1.1.3 when 3rd party apps become available.

i thought 1.1.3 has it. sdk is only a 'software delvelopers kit' for software developers to create the apps within apples guidelines.

Everyone is stating: "Apple must release a new firmware in order to support SDK". Guess what? 1.1.3 has this native support already. I don't think they will release a new firmware, and even if, 1.1.3 will definitely run SDK, as Apple will not block this if you haven't got the latest firmware.

[epij]

i don't know how the sony and psp are but people keep referencing them... the latest machines... how are they being hacked? sw? hw?

thanks

there are software and hardware hacks (pandoras battery), but i'd say most of the stuff is software, and probably all you'll ever need. hardware hacks are for total bricks, but i never managed to generate one.

there are even "custom firmwares" out of the latest official firmware, with fancy features (iso loading directly in the xmb, complete xmb replacements) made by the community.

sure psp dev/hacking is years ahead, but it was at the exact same point as the iphone once. zillions of "HOW DO I DOWNGRADE 2.5?" ... "WHEN WILL 2.5 DOWNDATER BE AVAIL?" - threads, cuz it took quite some time to hack 2.0+ firmwares.
and by today... the whole thing is decrypted and reverseengineered to the bones :)

[slimnickyy]

Everyone is stating: "Apple must release a new firmware in order to support SDK". Guess what? 1.1.3 has this native support already. I don't think they will release a new firmware, and even if, 1.1.3 will definitely run SDK, as Apple will not block this if you haven't got the latest firmware.

So what are we waiting for?

[Fab1Man]

So what are we waiting for?
That's exactly the same thing I am wondering about. Unfortunately I am not part of the DEV team.
Is it realistic to believe that Apple will force 2-300 000(or how many there is) users to go to a store and change their phone to one with 4.6 BL? Since the BL cant be updated by FW update. Dont think so.
I don't think so. The bootloader is there to protect your iPhone. It makes it possible to boot in recovery mode, always! If the bootloader is upgraded and for example your power shuts down, your bootloader is corrupt. I don't think Apple wants to take that risk.

[blankmac01]

there are software and hardware hacks (pandoras battery), but i'd say most of the stuff is software, and probably all you'll ever need. hardware hacks are for total bricks, but i never managed to generate one.

there are even "custom firmwares" out of the latest official firmware, with fancy features (iso loading directly in the xmb, complete xmb replacements) made by the community.

sure psp dev/hacking is years ahead, but it was at the exact same point as the iphone once. zillions of "HOW DO I DOWNGRADE 2.5?" ... "WHEN WILL 2.5 DOWNDATER BE AVAIL?" - threads, cuz it took quite some time to hack 2.0+ firmwares.
and by today... the whole thing is decrypted and reverseengineered to the bones :)

No way man, it's all hardware now. Nobody makes downgraders for the new firmwares since the Pandora's arrival. And more importantly, Sony has locked out the new owners from downgrading and installing custom firmware by any software method since v3.51. Ask the owner of a new PSP Slim w/CFW how they got there - a hardware hack to kick it into service mode, ergo - pandora's battery prepped on a phat.

[don527]

epij... thanks for the info.

then best tactic is to openly share everything attack from all angles...

let hardware guys open it up like geo and sw guys like dev team have crack at it but also people on forum and noobs like ta_mobile have a crack. with blankmac01 post... it may come down to hw hacks only in the future too and gotta give these guys all you can.

hw guys opening it up and unlocking all the info they can get into and sw guys being able to take info from the hw unlocks and keep on coming up with new tactics... maybe even custom firmware like mentioned above... it's a no brainer.

but IMO gotta stop second guessing apple and just release stuff when it's available. people can take what's been developed through the current jailbreak and try to find different angles. gotta stop keeping stuff to themselves.

like geo said after his first comments about not seeing a sw unlock anytime soon... "he's so wrapped up in the phone lately that he may not be able to see different possibilities."

let everyone see it and if someone else comes up with something new... like chinese or russians... so be it. this is not a elite team or dev team only production folks.

[Mikevs]

SDK it not the reason, possibly is not present the real decision, SDK an excuse, really it is necessary to break the modem, SDK at all has no that the general with the modem, all these half measures for example search of holes in code IPOD, all it will not help, is instant all these holes will cover and then we will come back to search of a real way of breaking of the modem.

[epij]

No way man, it's all hardware now. Nobody makes downgraders for the new firmwares since the Pandora's arrival. And more importantly, Sony has locked out the new owners from downgrading and installing custom firmware by any software method since v3.51. Ask the owner of a new PSP Slim w/CFW how they got there - a hardware hack to kick it into service mode, ergo - pandora's battery prepped on a phat.

holy moly. guess me as 1.5 user since the beginning has quite overlooked some hassles :>

apologies for my incorrectness, and thx for the info blankmac!

[blankmac01]

No worries. I only mention it since the iPhone seems to be heading for a parallel situation. Sony was very aggressive about trying to kill the CFW community and they have persevered (the CFW community) - I believe the iPhone hacking community will do the same, but also think that the dev team is incorrect in their logic for withholding information.

[epij]

i believe the exact same thing. community will always prevail. and even if it will be nasty hardware mods in future, there will always be a way.

and no matter how hard it is, its only giving certain freaks a challenge :P

[jaeh]

OK, OK !! All considerations are good but let´s talk about money (This is the Apple´s and M$´s core) they are very worried about hackers for sure, Apple receive lots of money from AT&T per month to be exclusive (easy money !!!) and what they receive for the unlocked iphones? ZERO!!!
It makes me believe they will continue fighting against us and dev team and this is why dev team decide to hold the new jailbreak I guess, remember it is business and while dev team do it for fun Apple guys do it for lots of money, who is the cat and who is de rat? They are just waiting to see what was wrong this time and after that we´ll back to nothing, be sure they are years far from us, iphone is a gadge for at least 2 years (hardware), who knows ?!?!

Keep moving forward !!

PS: Sorry for my poor english ;-)

[don527]

Well, what's done is done... the dev/elite teams held back the secpack when it first came out and they are holding back jailbreak and really nothing we can do about it.

the positive is that the community is aware and it's the community that will have to make the changes... when new fw are released and new info received... hopefully the people with the info (like 1.1.3 early) will look to the community and give it to people like ta_mobile or geo or anyone in the community that feels that they can step up to the plate to do the right thing with the info and also share it with other people in the community.

honestly... i hope the teams involved just basically break apart and not be part of any team anymore and just be part of community... like geo... no restrictions for him... he wants to help, he just comes in, whether he is leading the effort or asked to contribute, teams up with capable people willing to help just for the sake of unlocking and unlocks the damn thing and fades back... and the community is grateful to him and all involved for all his contributions regardless of what the teams accuse him of.

i would imagine that whoever gave the 1.1.3 to dev team probably wishes differently at this point. there is no doubt selfish intent on the teams part that has caused or will cause setback in progress

No worries. I only mention it since the iPhone seems to be heading for a parallel situation. Sony was very aggressive about trying to kill the CFW community and they have persevered (the CFW community) - I believe the iPhone hacking community will do the same, but also think that the dev team is incorrect in their logic for withholding information.

[anthonywe]

holding the information? what the fucking point to have to information if u hold it..and people give them money for a reason not just to make them rich..for me it's like steeling money saying ur ganna find the way to unlock it and then give it out for free and when u get it u dont even give it out..just like scammers?

[langa]

why dont you think that others cant find. If they can do it some others can also do it.

[epij]

well. the only reason for "holding it back" might be, that this current unlock is the only thing upon their horizon and nothing else that seems doable in any way. like a last resort (currently), and therefore panic in the disco :>

i understand the motivation to "do it right" in this case, and this brings our patience in, though noone knows what's going to happen. if it will last longer because of the holdback. if it will "pay off" in the end for the community, or if it will be a complete flop ...

we'll see :>

for now... get a 30 bucks xSIM from china for your 1.1.2 and sit and wait.

[don527]

why dont you think that others cant find. If they can do it some others can also do it.

others will be able to do it... and i suspect it will be done in the future. and the new people involved will do it with new intent and reasoning. new information hopefully wont go to the selfish few and the information will be more openly shared. but in the meantime we have to pass this point.

[huecobros]

Maybe we can have DARK ALEX code for the iphone, this 1.1.3 dev team fiasco has gone too far.